The Dynamics of Husband and Wife Teams with Jen and James Schulz

Rob: 0:00

Hello and welcome to the VanRein Compliance Podcast with Dawn and Rob. I'm Rob.

Dawn: 0:04

And I'm Dawn. Hey, and today we are going to shift.

Rob: 0:08

We're going to delve a little deeper into something different. Something that Dawn and I are very excited about and passionate about is family-owned businesses and the amazing dynamics of husband and wife teams. We've talked security. We've talked compliance Heck. We've talked Texas football. I got my shirt on today. Did I mention my texas football? Okay, anyway, it's coming. We're in the sec this year, so we got things to do. People, um. We talked football. We've talked homecoming. You've talked everything but, but we really want to talk about the backbone of the united states. The backbone of the economy is small business, is businesses that are under 500 employees, and so this week we are going to welcome Jen and James Schultz of Answer Midwest, and we're so glad you guys have joined us.

Jen and James: 0:53

Thank you. Yeah, we're happy to be here.

Rob: 0:55

Absolutely, and Jen, that's not live. We're good. This is all you know. We will edit to the post. We got posts.

Jen and James: 1:02

That was the stipulation.

Rob: 1:08

Well, Dawn, kick us off. I know you had a couple of great questions.

Dawn: 1:11

So glad you guys are here. I had the pleasure of just seeing Jen and James at the Tune Conference in Myrtle Beach, south Carolina, which was lovely. I'd never been and it's a nice destination spot, so I really want to go back.

Dawn: 1:28

When it's warm when it's warm. Yes, it was cold while we were there. Husband, wife teams are very dynamic and a lot of people have asked us for the seven years now that we've been working together. You know, wow, I couldn't do that, or, oh gosh, and honestly, when Robert asked me to work with him by his side, I was like what I have my thing, like what that's your thing, and I mean it, it, that was my, that was literally my answer for the time and, um, it took me a little bit to to warm up to the idea. But I have to say that after 24 years of being married with two, with two Rob, we, we, we have a great relationship, a personal relationship. We've always had great communication, we have a great marriage. We are great parents. I believe I'm just going to toot our horns. I have a great son. We've done a lot of great things. We've been up, we've been down.

Dawn: 2:28

You know the whole, you know being married and life and you know that type of thing and and I actually every day I'm surprised at working together and and how, how it just it's natural for us and that's why I wanted the two of you on is because you guys have a very natural um, you know, uh aura to yourself, you guys, the way you work together, and it really reminds me of of how Rob and I work together, and it is. It is very exciting because you guys are successful and we are, we are. I believe we're successful as well, we're, we're growing like you guys are, and and so really I just I wanted to start with you guys as far as kind of how, how you got into, well, how you, how you met. Let's just go back to it Like oh, we're going way back.

Dawn: 3:24

How you got into well how you met, let's just go back to it. Oh, we're going way back.

Rob: 3:27

Let's just it doesn't have to be very involved.

Dawn: 3:29

Where you met and then how you got into the industry. Obviously we know, but to tell our viewers if they don't know, and just kind of the dynamics of your marriage and working together, Whoever wants to start.

Jen and James: 3:44

All you kids go.

Jen and James: 3:45

All right. Well, we met in college. We went to Greenville College in Illinois and I had been in a relationship and was nursing a broken heart, and his best friend wanted to ask out my roommate. And so he said hey, you want to come along and be a wingman? And so James was like, sure, I'll ask Jen. And so they broke up and here we are.

Jen and James: 4:11

Yeah. So basically it ended up being we played wingman on this first date and Mighty Ducks, by the way, that's when the first Mighty Ducks came out to kind of date us a little bit, yeah. And of course we went to a great meal afterwards Taco Bell drive through, you know your college kids, so yeah. So we met at Greenville college, not Greenville university, and got married a few years later.

Jen and James: 4:36

We did yeah, yeah.

Jen and James: 4:38

So we just celebrated our 30th last week two days ago, days ago. Yes, see, this is so helpful 30 years yeah, 30 years on the 30th. So yeah, I'm pretty excited about that so.

Rob: 4:53

So, you're the rebound, you're the rebound boyfriend.

Jen and James: 4:58

I'm the rebound that ended up the husband yeah, it worked out really well yeah, um, really well, you know, you make decisions as you're kind of playing the whole dating game and getting ready to get married and things like that, and I don't think I can speak for myself I don't know if I can speak for you I it turns out such, it was such a better choice than I even imagined it was, was just, it was just. You know, you only know so much at that point and by the time it all plays out, you're like, okay, this is even better, this is so much, even better than I had in mind Um.

Jen and James: 5:34

So yeah, it was, it was great, Absolutely great.

Jen and James: 5:37

Yeah, and then how we kind of got in the industry, um, he was a teacher, a high school teacher, um that, and loved it, was fantastic at it, and then eventually was principal and then teacher anyway, and for me, my family had always been more business oriented. My dad was trying to buy a business for my mom to run, run and, through a series of events, ended up getting introduced to this company that had been that started in 1946. And 1991, my parents came in and bought it and it's just kind of taken off from there. So I you know being a pretty normal thing I think didn't want anything to do with it.

Jen and James: 6:25

Right, I had my degree and I was going to go out, you know, do something else. And so I did, and I spent a few years doing that. And then the family business started looking pretty darn good after a few years out in the world. So I called my dad one day and said I'd really like to come if you can take me on. And so they did. And I always kind of had a dream of James coming on board too. But he kind of like you guys, he was like teaching is my thing, I'm going to do this till I drop yeah. So yeah, that's kind of how we got there.

Rob: 6:59

And a lot of the you know a lot of listeners. They probably don't know what the business is, so it's health and health services. So that's one thing is that we do a lot of work in the task called TAS industry. So obviously this goes out to the into the waves, right, and so a lot of people don't think about the people on the other end. At two in the morning or five o'clock on a Friday, or they've had an accident or they have a toothache, or their kiddos it's always kiddo sick. So explain a little bit more about, about the business and tabs on that okay.

Jen and James: 7:29

Well, um, a lot of people when they think of the industry, they think of telemarketers, right, so you get a really, a really bad impression, um, but we're kind of on the opposite end of that. So we only take incoming calls. Uh, we don't reach out and bother anybody when they're having supper. But if you need somebody after hours or during hours, we're there to kind of support businesses of all shapes and sizes and types all across the country and we just kind of give them a second hand to help support them.

Jen and James: 7:59

So we take incoming calls for all types of businesses. So we take incoming calls for all types of businesses. If times are great, then they're busy and need a little extra hand and we can be there to just help out, make sure that their clients are taken care of even when they're not available. So it lets the staff have some work-life balance, right, but it also gives the opportunity so their clients are taken care of 24 seven and then we can kind of triage and reach out when it's necessary and get them involved. But it's, it's been really great.

Dawn: 8:38

So talk a little bit about and we, we, we can also talk about our, our side of this. But I want to hear from you guys first. You're kind of that work-life balance. It's always such a word that you know it's like it's thrown around. I mean, I think that's a word from like the corporate days. I mean, honestly, it's like Rob and I both came from the corporate world and it was like, you know, we, that was the whole thing is you come home and you commute home and like, oh my gosh, now we're home and now let's, let's try to talk, but then you talk about the day and then it's just like, before you know it, it's like, oh, we got to eat. And then you know it just becomes this, like you know and it's different now.

Dawn: 9:16

It's different now because we're remote, y'all are remote, but you have some, some workers that aren't you know. So kind of the balance, because I'm assuming, jen, by the time you said, dad, I'm going to work here, I'm guessing that was before kids, right, and before all that. So so tell me about the dynamic of once, once James came on, or maybe how we came on to that, and then kind of how you guys handled that dynamic of running a business and then also a family.

Jen and James: 9:48

Well, I'll start out with how I came on, because that's a kind of story in itself, but the bottom line is I thought I was going to teach, I loved teaching the kids, I love parents, I love the entire interaction with colleagues, and our son graduated in 2017 and Jen had been wanting me to work with her for a while, so I thought, ok, I'm not, I don't have anything planned in the summer, so why don't we just give it a run and see what happens?

Jen and James: 10:18

To interject. Our son went to school at your school that you taught Both kids Both.

Jen and James: 10:27

So they would ride with me to school and come home and all that kind of business, the whole bonding thing it was. So that summer I was like you know what, let's just try this. We went in eyes wide open. We actually interviewed some couples that work together to ask them you know, what are the pitfalls we need to be aware of, what are the strengths, what are the great things that kind of flow out of with your spouse all the time right? So we talked to folks and at the end of the first summer I was like okay, I think this works, we like each other at the end of the day.

Jen and James: 11:02

Nice, you know, because when you run an answering service that is 24-7 operational, it's more than just nine to five. You're on call quite a bit at the time, so it's a matter of not just taking things through the day, but then it kind of bleeds into the evening. And then you talk about that work-life balance, which we'll get into in just a little bit. But over a progression of two years I'll just kind of shorten it up a little bit I went from teaching a full load down to teaching four classes, down to teaching one class the last year. So there was a nice progression of going from teaching into going into Answer Midwest. I did ask my daughter her senior year it was the last year I taught. I was like, okay, so I would like to teach calculus, but if you don't want me to be your teacher, I understand that it's your senior year she's like no dad, I want you in the classroom.

Jen and James: 11:57

All right, perfect, so that last year I could just taught one class and I got to teach her and her classmates and so it made for a nice kind of just way out and working well together. That was kind of the fun of it, as I kept kind of seeing more and more and kind of getting more involved with answer Midwest, her strengths and my strengths really balanced each other out, and Dawn you said originally, you know it's just natural and I hadn't thought about it that way, but that's a really great description of we didn't really lay down a lot of ground rules, it just really came together well and it's all based on the foundation we had established and it's all based on the foundation we had established.

Dawn: 12:49

Now, which one of you is more of the visionary and which one of you is more of the integrator?

Jen and James: 12:52

That's hard. Yeah, I think it depends on the topic. Yeah, I would agree with that. That's sweet. I shouldn't probably admit this publicly, but tech stuff scares me. We are a highly tech business right, and honestly I'm scared of it. So he has the more vision for the tech future. I am much more people and finance minded, so, um, that's where all my pouring in goes, and he, he keeps the actual literal calls coming in, but business running um yeah, that's the part he does.

Dawn: 13:40

So that's interesting. You guys kind of share his operational wise. Yeah, yeah, you both are that, but you do it different, different pieces. You're like James's tech operational, you're more of the people to um operational. So that's interesting Cause we, rob and I um, we only a couple of years ago figured out who was who, because we just went into it and we and we knew you kind of know like where your strengths are, right, but then you start going wait a minute, maybe you should stay in your lane, maybe you're more this and maybe I'm more the, and then you start trying to like draw the line, because after a while you kind of have to, because then you start overlapping each other and then you start stepping on toes and stuff like that.

Dawn: 14:33

So we we you know rob has always been the visionary and um, and so he kind of was like well, maybe I'm not, maybe, maybe I'm that, but you know, maybe you should, you know, run everything and do this. I was like wait, that's a lot. So we kind of had to actually break it down and I'm operational and I figured I'm the operational, so I'm more of the integrate, like I need a process. Like Rob was like hey, this, this, this, and I'm like Whoa, wait, you know, so I'm. So we, we figured this out, but it it took a while to figure out like who has what, but I know, for us to move the business forward, that we really had to get over that hump. But you guys, it sounds like you. You know what each of your skills are and so, even though you haven't named I'm this, I'm that, you've actually figured that out and you guys have been successful in that. So that's great. I mean, that's yeah.

Jen and James: 15:22

Yeah, I don't think we we never really sat down and delineated as you were talking about that. It just naturally happened. And I think a lot of it comes down to not a lot of it, I would say. Part of it comes down to the fact that my education, my experience, all of that is in the education realm, right, and so I'm now coming into a business realm and I realize what my lane is Like. For example, if there's a conflict between the two of us, she sees it one way, I see it another way, and it's a business specific topic.

Jen and James: 15:56

It's like I know my lane. It's like she has the education, she has the experience, she has the wisdom of doing this for 30 some years. It's like, okay, let's, let's just kind of talk it through. But a lot of times her ideas are the best ideas, so we just run with them. Yeah.

Jen and James: 16:15

I think, I think really, though the truth of it is that that kind of fluctuates too, like I know, for us in our lives. Both of us come from families of everybody's a chief. We have a lot of chiefs in our families, a lot of people. Basically all of them are the boss of wherever they are. The high D mentality just driven.

Jen and James: 16:42

And so you come from that and you, you spend a lot of years being the you know, the go-to person, and then when you come together and you're both used to that it can be it can be kind of tricky, because sometimes even you know human nature you get a little territorial. Sometimes somebody comes in with a different idea and you're like, well, this isn't what you do, this is, this is what.

Rob: 17:08

I do, I'm just the teacher, james.

Jen and James: 17:12

Yeah, but being able to kind of um, he's, he's being kind, saying that my ideas are the best, but recognizing that, even though that is my background and not his, that does not mean that my ideas are always the best, and sometimes he can come in from a different perspective and really change the course. That needs to be changed, because I can get in a rut, being where I've been for so many years.

Rob: 17:40

Right, yeah, and you really hit on that power of partnerships is really because you'll you'll see things one, one lane, one way. James. You'll see it in a different way. You may have other leaders on your team to see it a different way.

Jen and James: 17:53

And there's got to be a tiebreaker.

Rob: 17:55

Right. Even though you two may not agree on the business piece, you will still support each other.

Jen and James: 18:01

Right.

Rob: 18:01

There's a couple of things like we would always agree on. Like you know what if she makes a decision, I'll support her. If I make it, she'll support me.

Rob: 18:08

And then you move forward and we've made good and bad, that's that's, that's life, right, but going, you know I, how did you James kind of curious, you know, because Jen's driving the business, running the enterprise how did you translate from becoming the educator, educator educator, I can talk Educator and a teacher to then becoming an implementer and owning a business? How did you transition that mindset from here's my lesson plan to there is no lesson plan, james. We've got to build this.

Jen and James: 18:46

What are we going to do. That's a, that's a fantastic. Um you go for I mean just to make the make the kind of contrast. Um, you go from everything is structured, yes, tones, every 45 to 30 minute classes and you have to be in specific areas at specific times to it's like wide open. So, and in one more so much wide open, looking at like a 24-7 business. So it's not even a nine to five right. So, um, that part, it took me probably I don't know three years. I don't know. It took a while.

Jen and James: 19:25

I'm still kind of moving that direction of going from a lot of structure to being very open-ended. I loved having September or August to May, a beginning and a closing, and then you go to the next year, a beginning and a closing. There's not that in the business world per se. So there was an adjustment there.

Jen and James: 19:50

There was getting used to the freedom that comes along with running a business, because you know you have to put in the legwork, you absolutely have to, and I think there's a I don't know if I'd say there's a bigger desire to put in the light work, because when you're working with kids you're really just kind of a. You're helping them achieve the goals that they have for themselves. You know, and there's such great motivation in that and this, there is a similarity with teaching the teammates you get to work with. There is a similarity with teaching the teammates you get to work with. They all have individual goals and what they want to accomplish in their lives, and so you're pouring into them in a very similar way that you're pouring into students. So there is that similarity.

Jen and James: 20:34

But that was one of my selling points to try to get on board.

Jen and James: 20:40

I was like you can still do this. I actually tutored a little bit of math for some college students and that was great.

Rob: 20:47

You don't walk away. You're built this way.

Jen and James: 20:50

I mean exactly.

Jen and James: 20:51

And that's a gift.

Rob: 20:52

God gave you that gift, so you need to tutor.

Dawn: 20:55

And if Ethan ever needs tutoring, we're going to call you. There you go.

Jen and James: 20:58

Call me up, I can tell you that as you are out of it, your skills get a little more rusty Google it kid. As you are out of it, your skills get a little more rusty Google it kid, Exactly. So to kind of wrap up, it's more of it's the transition is it's still happening? Yeah, it's still happening, after being on full time for five years now. But I think being involved with the hiring process really really helps because it's a principal. I was in charge of hiring and things at the school I was in and so those skills translate really really well. So it's, it's different, it's more I don't want to say it's more personal, because you have so much more at stake.

Jen and James: 21:47

It seems like the risk.

Jen and James: 21:48

The risks are higher, for sure. Yeah, the risks are higher, I think but the rewards are pretty good too yeah, yeah, I would agree, I would agree.

Rob: 21:54

You're, you know you're, you're not now. I mean you're, you're kind of I'd say kind of with education. Why? Why is your there? Your responsibility is to educate and train and help the students further themselves. You have a small business. You're there to also further educate and help them, but also you need to make sure that payroll clears You're responsible for their hopes and their dreams. They have their own family dreams, they have their own things and as owners and founders you've got to make sure those things work and the machine keeps going and cash flows and stuff.

Jen and James: 22:29

Yeah, and honestly, that's always been our passion, like the team that we get to work with has always been our passion, more than the industry or anything like that. Getting the opportunity to give people jobs and then make those jobs as good good as we can make them, give them as much as we can give them um offer as many opportunities as we can.

Dawn: 22:51

that's always been the driver so yeah, and that's a lot of similarities to buy a house or to buy a car or to have a baby or to whatever that is. And it is amazing when you think about that, you're like I'm helping that family and it is a super cool thing at the end of the day, like that's really what it's about, like you're helping.

Jen and James: 23:32

You just want to do as much as you can. Yeah, yeah. Just keep adding to what you can do for people. Yeah, yeah.

Dawn: 23:40

And in that, too, you're what you're fostering is you're? And in that, too, you're what you're fostering is you're, you're helping them. And so then they're going to help you. As Answer, midwest, to help your customers and to be kind and be good servants to your customers and and, and it's that golden rule you know, it's the, you know treat others as you want to be treated. And and I think, and you guys know, I mean I think that a lot of that is feels that his is is muddied water.

Dawn: 24:08

Now there's just a lot, of, a lot of stuff and the whole landscape of everything in the world right now, and but if you can say, at the end of the day, you're like, hey, you know, I was able to, you know, support these, these employees and help them do these things, and then they served our customers well and our customers are happy and we're happy, and you know you can sleep, you know you're like we've done, we've done good, you know Um, so that's yeah, yeah, so what? What kind of um? So, other than you transitioning James from educator to to now business owner, like, was there any other times that things got a little, um, you know, kind of hard to? I don't know kind of see, see the light at the end of the tunnel, or some challenges of of being being so close to each other. If you will cause you know you're, you're married, um, but to just just in making decisions, was there, was there some decisions that have been hard to try to separate, that Like okay, I love you, you know you're my wife, or I?

Dawn: 25:14

love you but I need to make this decision. You know what I mean. Like you know was, was there anything? I mean you don't have to get specific, obviously, but but was you know, has there been times when it's been hard and you had to kind of, let's just take a, take a step back here for a minute.

Jen and James: 25:32

Space and grace, that's kind of been a mantra. There are times, would you say, about intellectual property.

Jen and James: 25:55

There are times what do you say about intellectual property? So it's, there are times I mean, first of all, when you're a couple, you read each other and you've been together 24 years, 30 years you know things are going well and you know when things are not. Unfortunately, you don't always react well. You know, hopefully most of you get the support that's necessary, don't always react well. You know, hopefully most of the time you get the support that's necessary. But in that, from that perspective, we read each other well and there are times where we just need to be apart. You know it's like I just maybe I'm just having a bad day, I'm just not treating people well the way I should, and exactly.

Jen and James: 26:23

And a lot of times it'll be. Hey, I'm just going to give you some space. And that's not a personal attack at all. It's just a matter of recognizing the situation and saying, okay, just why don't you go run, why don't you go do this, why don't you go do that? And it's like, okay, you're suggesting that from, um, uh, an encouraging perspective in our relationship. You're not telling me to go away. You're just saying, hey, just go do something else for a while and we'll come back. And it's not only just that space, but it's the grace to put up with the things that we do when the other person isn't at their best right. So when we have challenges, that whole space and grace idea comes in. It plays really, really well. Yeah, you want to add to that?

Jen and James: 27:08

Yeah, that's, that's huge in our lives, in all areas, because you know we I've told him before, there's times I don't even want to be around myself. If I could get away from my own cranky self, I would.

Dawn: 27:20

Tell me how that works.

Jen and James: 27:22

Yeah, it's nothing personal against you, I'm just. I'm just irritable and cranky, and so mostly in our house it works Not one person telling the other to go do something, but more often it's recognizing where they are and then actually removing ourselves, like if it's. If he's cranky, I will take myself and go down in the basement and do something down there and just wreck and just know that he'll come back around. He just needs a little time and a little space. And the same applies to me. You know, I definitely do the same thing, so, but that that little phrase has worked, has done for us that is awesome, that is very good.

Dawn: 28:06

I mean mean just a simple walk or just go outside or just mow lawn or just pick up a leaf or go to the store like what you know um, and then not having your feelings hurt, being the other person, and not taking that personally, not having your feelings hurt by that, but just knowing that we're all there sometimes, yes, and after that many years and we can relate not quite as many, but in the same realm here, you kind of can tell and you know, on there you can read them that yeah, you go over there, I'm going over here, and you're right, you don't always have to say it Like you need to go to this conference and spend four days over there and I'm just going to stay home.

Rob: 28:53

I haven't done that before I was a single dad. I'm going to the conference and you're going to stay here, just did that I was a single dad, single dad.

Dawn: 28:58

There is times when I believe that we all need to have our independence and we need to have our alone time. I think everyone needs that in any relationship. Kids need that away from their parents. I mean it, you know it goes all around. So, and I think it's healthy.

Dawn: 29:14

I think it's healthy and I think that you know, especially you guys know this, when you're together 24 seven and you're living and breathing your personal life and your business life, and you guys I mean I'm sure you're very similar in that Sometimes you talk about business at dinner, sometimes you talk about you're having coffee in the morning in your robe and you're talking about a business idea. It's the way, it's the way we are, because we own a business, right, and so it, it comes into your personal life, right. I mean it, mean it, it does, and sometimes we, we, we actually intentionally, and you guys probably, this too is you go to dinner and say, hey, we're not talking business at dinner, we're going to have a nice dinner out. Let's talk about our next vacation. Let's talk about, you know, our, our kiddo.

Dawn: 29:58

Let's talk about you know something different like landscaping, I don't know you know something else besides businesses. Sometimes we have to actually tell ourselves let's not talk about that. Not that it's a bad thing, but you have to kind of sometimes separate. You know, do you guys run into that too, where you tend to talk a lot about the business all the time and and you have to kind of yeah, Let me, let me just how does that go for you too, when you try not to talk business?

Rob: 30:26

I'm just curious how well does that go? So we we've gotten well. First of all, we we realize when rob needs to stay in this lane as a visionary and have ideas and not try to be process rob. Or do not get me into finance, rob. I I meddle and zero in the books and I mess that up and then, then I used this.

Rob: 30:45

And then when Don does the process and does the books and and the CPAs and do all that, when we get those in those lanes, we're really good. And what we learned from that is there there, that the cliche work-life balance is corporate. That's corporate America. That is, that is In business. It is integration. You integrate your life and your business, especially since we've all worked at home as well, or off and on through the week. You're at home, so we have to integrate that.

Rob: 31:15

The one thing we've done is we have to be stern. We have to tell each other, like Don, we're not going to talk about sales or this deliverable or whatever. At dinner, we say, how about tomorrow at work coffee, or how about maybe lunch on Saturday? So we, we, I have to put my mind. I have to have a flag in the ground somewhere that I will have my voice. You know, maybe it's Monday and it's Friday night, but my mind's going because it's nine o'clock and my mind goes at nine. Um, so I have to have somewhere to go to and go. Okay, monday, we're going to talk. And then sundays we're getting better at not thinking about work on sundays. Right, we try to take the. Take that sabbath off for real that I it's hard about nine o'clock.

Jen and James: 31:59

I'm sunday night, like are we ready are we set we good for the week so, yeah, yeah, we have a lot of those same things and I think, um, for us it's it's trying to be super intentional, right, you have to. It doesn't come naturally to separate the two because, like you said, you're living together, you're working together, you're of the same mindset, trying to go towards the same goals, and those don't just stop at five o'clock, right, so, but we also know the importance of separating. You know you can't just do work 24 seven. So I think we have a little bit different dynamic too, because we're coming into a business that was my parents Right and so, and we do a lot with them, a lot. We're with them most nights of the week having dinner.

Jen and James: 32:51

And so to you you don't say. You know we're stopping at five o'clock when work is over. We're done talking, because then we're going to go be with my parents and they've poured their heart and soul into this place, and so they. That's what they want to talk about. So, whether we're dead or not, they've earned that right. They've they've earned the right to know what's going on.

Jen and James: 33:15

I think there's a respect there. Yeah, there's a respect there, and just they've earned that, so.

Jen and James: 33:23

so that kind of puts a different dynamic on top of that work is everything right Like that's your identity.

Rob: 33:35

Yeah, that's your, that generation is the identity.

Dawn: 33:43

Yes, and so it's just. Yeah. I want to ask that that that's a great segue, because I really am interested in um have. Do your parents, have they given both of you the reins of everything to run the business? Or do they get that? Because we've seen this in other customers right In the industry the parents have a foot in, so they haven't fully handed over, and so I wondered, did that transition happen where your parents said you are now completely in charge of it? And, if so, like? Was that a difficult transition for them and for you guys? Was it easy? I mean, did they smoothly hand it? Or kind of tell me a little bit about that, because that's yeah.

Jen and James: 34:31

Definitely not easy. Let me start with yes, they give us, have given us complete control and don't really question our decisions. I think it was made easier because, to be honest, things have gone really well. You know, if we had taken over and then things had tanked, then that might be a different scenario, different conversation, no dinners for you, right, but they've done a really great job with that. I think my dad, my mom, has completely let go. A long time ago, my, as soon as I gave her grandkids, she was, she was like new hobby.

Jen and James: 35:13

New hobby.

Jen and James: 35:13

I don't even know anymore. She's been, she's been. She was fantastic.

Jen and James: 35:16

Yeah, absolutely um, my dad still is in our uh, we have a weekly management meeting and he still joins in on that and has um input and ideas there. So, um, he's a part, but never um, never overbearing, never trying to take control, always supportive, always, always supportive.

Jen and James: 35:40

I would say a great title for him would be a supportive consultant. I mean he really he's a part of our biannual or bi-weekly, our meetings every two weeks and he listens and if he has input, he offers it. If he doesn't, he just listens. And if he has input, he offers it. If he doesn't, he just listens. And you can't have for a better situation Someone who's been in the business world as many years as he has and they're giving you advice like hey, did you think about this? And that happens at dinner too, it's not just at meetings. He'll just say, hey, have you thought about this? And it's really good. It's like I think we have actually thought, we thought about that one, and I think that is also confirming for him that if he asks something and we have a positive response like yeah, we've already done that, I think he feels better about the direction as well. But he has been extremely supportive both of them, yeah that is amazing.

Dawn: 36:33

Yeah, we are very blessed in that, for sure, because I I'm sure there are stories and you guys probably know some of those stories where the handing off the legacy business doesn't go so well or there's a struggle with who's handing it off and who's not letting go and those struggles and I think that's that's a fantastic like storybook story, pretty much what you guys have. So, yeah, definitely embrace that and love that and cherish that like you do. So Absolutely.

Jen and James: 37:09

You recognize the rarity of that for sure.

Rob: 37:11

Yeah, your dad needs that seat on the board. Yeah, absolutely. He needs to have his voice and he's he's, you know proud of what you guys have done.

Jen and James: 37:20

You can just I've met him like two years ago last year right, you did yeah and he's, you know it.

Rob: 37:28

It's that identity of the generation too. It's like I want to make sure things are going and be here to be supportive and let you know when you need to go down a different track.

Jen and James: 37:35

Yeah.

Rob: 37:37

Yep, going back to, and I maybe you said this, janice, did your parents purchase the business or did they? They are they founders or they started?

Jen and James: 37:45

No, they purchased it.

Rob: 37:46

Yeah, okay, and they didn't know anything about answering services right.

Jen and James: 37:50

No, not really. My dad had a Stephanie background. He had worked for AT&T and Southwestern Bell, so he knew that side of things and my mom knew the administrative side of things and so then after they purchased it, they purchased it for my mom to run and then after they purchased, it was the whole divestiture with AT&T and all of that stuff.

Jen and James: 38:12

And so he got caught in the one of the bajillion layoffs that they did, and so it just. You know, coincidentally it just all fell together and the timing was perfect, and then he was able to go right out from that job right into this and start building it and it. It was a really great fit for them so, and for us.

Rob: 38:34

And there's, there's a lot of women-owned businesses in the tax industry. There's a I mean a lot of women own, um, I think, don we?

Jen and James: 38:41

I bet you look at all our clients, 80 of them are women-owned or founded um, I think it started a lot more like I don't want to say secretarial, but kind of, kind of more that direction and it's become a lot more Tech and a lot I don't really know what I'm looking for, but a lot more involved, a lot. You're doing a lot more things than what you were originally doing back in the day, when you had a pencil and paper and you were writing down notes.

Jen and James: 39:12

Yeah, we don't write things down anymore.

Jen and James: 39:19

No, no, because our compliance, people do not let us. But anyway, no paper.

Rob: 39:22

No evidence of anything.

Dawn: 39:24

That's right.

Jen and James: 39:26

Never a paper tree.

Dawn: 39:27

Speaking of you, know I know both your kids are super smart. You know math wizards and physics wizards and, my goodness, brainiacs. There have and I'm sure you have but conversations as far as the legacy of the business and who who will take over in that type of thing. I mean I know you've talked about it but and I know you don't really want to think about it because that's you know, way, way, way, way far away but I mean I have to ask. I mean, is it, is it a possibility that one of your kids will eventually Want to?

Jen and James: 40:06

you know, everything's a possibility, right, because I wanted nothing to do with it. And here I am, and right now they both have um, very um direct goals that they're going after our daughters. And just about to start her final year of being a physical therapist, um, our son is in a program to be a what's he going to be? Theoretical physicist.

Jen and James: 40:33

I don't know he's in the process. He'll be getting a master's in theoretical physics here in the next seven months to 12 months and then he's. The plan originally is to go after his doctorate, so we'll see where that goes.

Rob: 40:49

And then our theoretical doctorate or you got a real one.

Jen and James: 40:55

OK, so I have this background in math and I'm thinking okay, I know you do this is going to be great. Nope, Nope, no. I had these great visions of being able to relate to my son studying physics and it's, it's quarks and quantum mechanics and just beyond. So I'm like you go kid.

Jen and James: 41:12

You go, they're on those tracks and we, we encourage that right a thousand percent. So, um, but you never know, I yeah, all right, like I said, I wasn't gonna do this either, so we'll see. That's not not set in stone for sure. Yeah, yeah, there's also.

Rob: 41:33

There's also like we've told ethan, I was told ethan he's. He's like compliance is boring and dumb. Yes, got it, you're 15, you're on the drum line, that's all I care about. And his hair? Oh my gosh, don the hair. There's a got like a diffuser now it's all curly like hair that's not firm, because he's got great curly hair, because don had curly hair young and I have this, so that's his focus but I told, him.

Rob: 41:56

You've got to keep the name. You know. You've got to keep the van ryan name going. It's van ryan drums or van ryan car repair, or van ryan milling or van ryan. You want to, I don't. You're going to be a physicist, right? Keep the name, even if they're not in the answering service. The fruits of our labor could pour into something that they do.

Jen and James: 42:18

Right, absolutely.

Dawn: 42:19

Division Like a division, spend something else off.

Rob: 42:25

Once they go work for someone for a bit, yeah, they're going to realize how crappy that is.

Dawn: 42:34

For the record.

Jen and James: 42:36

I agree with Ethan about about compliance.

Dawn: 42:39

It is boring we make it fun you do, you try, goodness gracious yeah, we're just making do this.

Rob: 42:49

Yeah, that's why we have you to do it with us well, thank you and we're good to yell at when you don't like it, and that's part of our counseling services. Okay, fine, take my money here.

Dawn: 43:03

I've got a minor in psychology and I think I use that more than anything, so yeah.

Jen and James: 43:07

Oh, I bet.

Jen and James: 43:08

Yeah, in any business, right, yeah, well what?

Dawn: 43:14

what? What would you guys say is um, I don't know, I guess that you know you're a great just kind of a wrap up to being being a successful married couple. Um, I guess it just did just some, a sentence or just, or just a few words of just like you know what wraps it up that you know put, puts the bow on it of being a married couple in a business.

Jen and James: 43:50

That's hard to summarize. I think, yeah, I think a couple of things come to my mind. For me to summarize, I think, yeah, I think a couple of things come to my mind. For me, um, intentionality. Um, because you're you, you won't have a successful marriage or business without intentionally working for it, right? So, um, for us, I know, like protecting our marriage, protecting our, our date nights that we have Still talk about all, or did we move up a little?

Jen and James: 44:23

bit Okay, good, protecting those things. And and one of the things when we were kind of talking about this past podcast is that as soon as you set a boundary, be prepared for everything in your life to push against it, right? So, as soon as we set for us, we set Wednesday night as our date night. Actually, it started Thursday and then everything that the things that you really want to do start pushing against that. Well, we have practice for this on Thursday nights and we have this on Thursday, and so eventually we ended up moving our date night because of that. But everything will try to push against it and it takes a lot, a lot of intentionality, um, both on the marriage side and the business side, to make them successful.

Rob: 45:10

Yeah, I love it. And where do you? How do you? You know one thing that's, that's great attentionality and having that time and everything will come against you and every day can be a rough day. So what do you do to celebrate the successes? You know, part of business ownership is you also have to have some rewards, and it, you know, it's not always just money. It could be time, it could be an event, it could be getting coffee as a success some days. What are some of the successes that you guys have Good coffee.

Dawn: 45:38

Good coffee, yes, not brown coffee.

Jen and James: 45:41

You and I, we appreciate the good coffee. I would say, first of all, this is something we're working on because it's not something that we do. Naturally, we don't take time to celebrate successes successes and we know we should do it more deliberately um. But I would also say that we're starting to learn to, um, kind of take into account the fruits of our labor a little more. Yeah, yeah, taking time away, doing a little more traveling um, and, being a remote job, you can be able to take it with you wherever you go. So there is that benefit and detriment, as the case may be sometimes, but being able to enjoy time with each other away from stuff that we had not done originally, so that's kind of a new.

Jen and James: 46:33

That's really new. In the last year probably a couple of years, um and it's something that's really really hard for me to. It's hard for me to go away for an evening, honestly, um, much less a trip, and so, to be honest, james is kind of making me do some of this stuff, but it's because I need to right, I need to turn my phone off and step away sometimes and know that the world will be able to go on.

Jen and James: 47:03

That's an example of that. But it's hard, oh please. That's an example of that. We're not campers, we're just not You're not 20 either. Yes, this is true. So there are these getaway cabins. Some guys on the east coast came up with getaway cabins and generally set up in a place where you do not have a lot of cell signal, um, and so we spent, I think, just three days in one of these little cabins, um, and I think that was the first exactly exactly, I can see you, jen, you're like.

Jen and James: 47:36

I can't. Actually this is the first time, I think, since we've been married and had Antrim Midwest um, that we were running, or she was running at the time, um that she didn't pick up her phone, she didn't check email. It was three days and we did that what about three, four months ago or something like that, and that was huge. That was a huge step for her, uh, personally, even professionally, and I think if we can kind of do that every so often just to kind of make sure that we have that, that buffer for just growth for her mental health, yeah exactly definitely exactly.

Dawn: 48:15

Yeah. I think that's great. I think you have to step away and you have to. You have to shut the phone off. You have to shut off the noise, right, the business in the head that you're thinking of all these things, and it's hard. I mean, I know it's hard and it's and it's funny because Rob is the, let's go. You know he's all the, and then I'm the one that's wait a minute, but we got this and this and he's the. So I hear you.

Jen and James: 48:45

I'm, you know, I have the, the spender, the let's go, that you know, kind of guys, yeah, but again, they're also.

Dawn: 48:50

They're also men that are very aware of us as their partners in personal partners and business. They are very aware of our needs and they are very caring and nurturing, and so we are very lucky because it's like they at times I know Rob does this hey, you need to step away, we need to go out back out front, we need to go for a walk, because I will sometimes just like drone and like, just you know, let me just whittle away some more. And he's always very good about saying you know what? I think you need to get up and take a step, step back. So, um, I also believe that is very good in marriage and in the business partnership is you need to identify when, hey, I think you need to step away, or hey, let's maybe both take a step back on the other side of the house.

Dawn: 49:45

You know, those are the things that we, that we have to be very aware of, because that's what makes our business successful, and definitely your business successful is because we, you know each other and know where each other's buttons are and when each other needs each other, and and leave the business here and then when, when you each need each other, to be on either side of the house. So, yeah, I it but it but it is. It is definitely every day. It's you have, it's, it's, it's the's the intentionality, it's it's like you have to be. You know, we don't just think of it's, it's not just we're going into an office and we have this boss and we, it's, we, we live and breathe it, just like you guys do every day you're basically practicing space and grace without having the name space and grace yeah right

Rob: 50:31

that's right. Yes, right, you guys, are it you?

Jen and James: 50:35

guys better copyright that I will tell you this though uh, you're talking about just it's kind of wrapping things up, and the other thing I'd kind of throw out there is respecting, um, yeah, the skills they bring to the table, the traits that they bring to the table once again, whether it's in marriage or whether it's, you know, at the office, and telling them I think that's another big part of it is telling them what you appreciate about them. Because if you're not going to tell them, you know, expecting other people to kind of step in and encourage, that's not their responsibility. That's your responsibility as a proper spouse. You know, expecting other people to kind of step in and encourage, that's that's not their responsibility. That's your responsibility as as a proper spouse. You know it's really really well and I'm really proud of what you've done and that's great. You know, and you never, never assume, never assume anything.

Dawn: 51:31

And never be afraid to give, give that feedback of, wow, that was an amazing idea or wow, that idea was horrible. I don't know, like I I have said that because, rob, I have this great idea and I'm like, really, that was it. You know, you know, you know what I mean. But it's just, it's being able to to have that, that conversation of if it's really great or if it's not, and just having that relationship. And I think both of our businesses are successful because we have successful relationships already and we just added the business on top of it and you just be yourself. It's the same relationship. It's just we've added some other decisions that now oh wait, don't just affect us, affect all these other people too. So, but it's, yeah, it's, it's, it's fun every day. Every day is different, right, and it's fun Very much so yeah.

Rob: 52:34

Even the taxes. Yeah, even the taxes you know, I'm seeing like advice for, you know, is from for for couples. You know we only have a handful that are in, that are, you know, married in business and life. You know, and and donna, I always look, look at the um. You know your marriage is the center right, that is the foundation. You have to build upon it Because if your marriage isn't settled, isn't set, then you're not going to be able to build a business on top of it. It'll crumble.

Jen and James: 53:03

And you'll likely crash your marriage in the process of trying.

Rob: 53:07

Right, both yeah, and I think we've all seen maybe colleagues have gone through that before, I've seen it or they feel that debt is okay and go get a bunch of loans or business loans or capital, and then you know the business is tanking and then the bank is calling the note and then that destroys the whole, the whole, uh, whole family yeah so, um, I think we agree.

Rob: 53:29

I could see, as you know, have that good, solid foundation in marriage and then build something on top of it. Is you know, have that good, solid foundation in marriage and then build something on top of it? Yeah, absolutely, oh, so good, so good. Were there other wisdom? Oh, I'm going to go back real quick. You said your daughter was in your class, right, james?

Jen and James: 53:46

yeah, I've had actually both of my students or both my kids as students and how.

Rob: 53:52

what was their grades at the end of semester? Yeah, and how does that work?

Jen and James: 53:58

Fortunately, for actually before I had them in class, I pulled them both aside and said I'm going to be harder on you than any other kids in the class and that may be unfair but it is. It is what it is because I'm not going to have any parent accuse me. It is what it is because I'm not going to have any parent accuse me. And we had that discussion early on to the point that it was like when you not often do you call your teacher's name, I mean really, when you think about it, it's not Mr or Mrs or Mrs.

Jen and James: 54:27

So I said but if you do call, my name it's Mr Schultz.

Jen and James: 54:31

So the first one comes through. Sherman was like any time he had to say it was very. It didn't happen often, but it was like Mr Schultz pulled the line. The second one, second one, she did not pull that line as well and it ended up being endearing. And yet at the same time she had a good enough relationship with her classmates that it never became an issue. Uh, I think I had built up enough trust with the parents over time that that was not an issue. But yeah, they, they're sharp kids. Um, so it really. I just wanted to make sure I didn't get in the way of their success. You know, you've got people like that where you're just like. I just want to facilitate, I just want to make sure I don't put any hurdles in your way to do your thing. They were those kind of kids. I will echo what you were saying, rob, that our team is phenomenal.

Jen and James: 55:27

Fantastic and the management team.

Jen and James: 55:33

We can kind of walk away for a little bit and know things will be handled, because they're just really good.

Jen and James: 55:39

And we trust them.

Jen and James: 55:41

That's the biggest part, that's the biggest part is people that we trust. That's huge. So that back to you. You guys have been Van Ryan, all of you, everyone on your team has been just amazing to work with and for somebody like me that's a worry wart about everything. You have really put my mind to ease in in all of the compliance areas. Dawn is good about kicking my rear when I need it kicked, and you know you guys, yeah, I get that, yeah, but you're just really fantastic. And then you know our personalities are similar and so we. It's just always fun. It's always a lot of fun being with you, so we appreciate the invite for sure.

Rob: 56:24

Wow, what a great story from Jen and James. We're so excited to have them on the podcast this week. You know what was one of the big nuggets that you took away from their success, Dawn.

Dawn: 56:32

Wow, it was a wonderful story being a partner in business and in life.

Jen and James: 56:40

Rob and.

Dawn: 56:40

I always look to other couples that run businesses for their stories, and this was a great one. And really what the takeaway was? The space and grace.

Rob: 56:51

Ooh, that was good.

Jen and James: 56:53

Space and grace.

Rob: 56:53

Or was?

Dawn: 56:54

it grace and space.

Rob: 56:55

Well, I think it's Space and Grace.

Dawn: 56:56

Okay, either way.

Rob: 56:57

It was really good. It was really good.

Dawn: 56:59

Uh, Jen and James need to copyright that. Um, and it just was just great just to just to hear their story.

Rob: 57:05

Yep, it definitely was and just how the business started as a family business, which we love, and Jen took the reins over and then and took it, uh, this far and then obviously now james is in it and they're going at it together, so, so excited for them. So, uh, if you like, if you like the podcast, the best thing you can do is just like and subscribe and share, uh, and obviously leave a review. If you can't leave a five-star review, then don't leave a review my mom always told you to be nice right.

Rob: 57:32

So that's it for this week's van ryan compliance podcast. Have a great week.